The following is a transcription of Voice of Bold Business Radio Program 75: Change Makes Us Nervous

Program Notes Can be Found Here.

Transcript of Program 75 – Change Makes Us Nervous

Jessica: You are listening to The Voice of Bold Business Radio, and I am your host Jessica Dewell of Red Direction. You are listening to ‘Change Makes Us Nervous’.

What can we do about it? Can we do anything about it? What does that actually mean, and the list of questions goes on. I know it’s reeling in your brain. Wait until you hear me talk about going to the dentist. We’re also going to be talking through the entire show a lot about lions and roars versus feeling that hot breath on your neck. The purpose of having Dr. Melanie Greenberg join us today was to look at awareness and mindfulness and openness from a different perspective because we all get nervous and we all get anxious.

Dr. Melanie Greenberg is a psychologist, coach, speaker, and author with a private practice in Mill Valley, California. She helps us manage stress in life, work, and relationships, and to overcome trauma and mind-body issues. We’ll be right back after this.

Announcer (amid background music): Welcome to The Voice of Bold Business, the show that provides everything smart leaders need to evaluate situations, build relationships, and create solutions. Jessica Dewell candidly talks about the skills necessary to build tenacity, and do more with less. And now, here’s Jessica.

Jessica: Melanie, I was actually out doing research for another project when I came across your article. I believe we have a common connection with Deb Oakland, correct?

Melanie: Correct, yeah.

Jessica: Debra Oakland has been on The Voice of Bold Business a couple of times now, and I really love her. So not only did I come across you independently in research, when she said your name to me, I was like, well now I’ve got to just reach out and see. I’m really glad to have you here.

Melanie: Thank you. She’s such a lovely person. She really has this warmth in spirit. I didn’t know her, I just kind of found her on the internet, but I think it is a bit of like-minded.

Jessica: Yes, we do. We gather with like-minded people. She’s also a big proponent of talking about stress and what stress actually does. This is your area of expertise is this concept of stress. One of the things that I took away (from your article) that I hadn’t really thought about before… you actually talk about stress of the unknown. I want to know more about that.

Melanie laughs

Melanie: Yeah, that sort of changes the image of stress a little bit. It’s a new angle on it I think. We’re actually animals at heart, I think. I think we’re wired for the jungle. It doesn’t seem that way, but that’s a lot of how our brains work. For us today, it’s about meeting the deadlines and stuff like that, but for our ancestors it was escaping a tiger, or not having a marauding tribe kill you, or not starving to death. Our brains don’t like the unknown because the unknown could be a tiger behind the bush. Our brains kind of develop to keep us alive, and to keep us alive you have to predict what’s going to happen. You have to predict where there’s food and also where you are likely to be able to eat your food without getting eaten. That’s part of why we’re wired to try to predict things all the time and we don’t really like lack of control and not being able to predict what’s going to happen or prepare a response for it, you know like running away or attacking.

Jessica: My chiropractor, and the creator of the chiropractic care that I participate in… It’s ‘Networks Final Analysis’ if anybody’s interested. Danny Knowles and Donald Epstein, they talk about, which cracks me up because you brought up lions, would you rather hear a lion’s roar to react, or would you rather smell that lion’s breath before you react?

Both laugh

Melanie: I think the roar.

Jessica: I think so too! When we’re thinking about stress and we get so wrapped up in our own stress and the fact that we have all of this external stimuli, that even though we’re not fighting for our own survival anymore our bodies and our brains still seem to be wired that way, what would you suggest the first step being to actually being able to go, well we got to switch gears.

Melanie: You’ve got to hear the roar in time, otherwise it’s too late by the time the breath gets there. What happens is, there’s a part of our brain that reacts to stress. It’s called the amygdala. It’s an almond shaped small structure in the middle of the brain. What it does is it sends us into fight or flight. It processes certain chemicals, like cortisol and adrenaline to kind of pump us up to get glucose to the brain to get running or to get fighting. But there is another part of our brain called the prefrontal cortex, which is behind your forehead. It’s the brains Executive Center. The prefrontal cortex has the ability to calm down the amygdala, and also to kind of calm down the reactions in the base of the brain stem that are associated with anxiety. The thing is that the information takes a bit longer to get there. So if you’re walking on a path and you see something in front of you that looks like a snake, you’ll be like (tense sound), before your brain could even say the word snake, you’ll have that reaction. Then a little bit later, you’ll be able to say the word snake. You’ve got to wait for the prefrontal cortex to get on board. It has to catch up. Part of that is if you notice yourself being stressed is to breathe, tell yourself to stop. Stop everything you’re doing and just breathe for a minute or two. By the time you’ve finished breathing, the pre-frontal cortex is there and you can actually think about the situation a bit more rationally rather than just be automatically kind of responding. Then once your prefrontal cortex is there, you could tell yourself, Okay, I got this. What are some things I’ve done in the past? What are some things I’ have in my coping skills to deal with this? Maybe I can think about it differently. Maybe I can use the strategy I used last week. This isn’t really so dangerous. That’s how you start to reorient to what you can do and also to try to think about how this may not be quite such a catastrophe as your body’s telling you.

Jessica: I’m thinking about this from two perspectives. You’re coming at it from me as an individual, or the listener as an individual, and that there’s a lot of self-awareness involved in this in terms of recognizing and noticing and choosing to assimilate information differently to have a different reaction next time. The more information we have the better prepared we are.

Melanie: It also depends on the kind of information.

Jessica: Yeah, okay.

Melanie: They may have information that makes everything worse, like ‘Now you’re completely helpless, the world is completely dangerous, you can’t trust anybody’… so that can make it worse.

Jessica: You’re talking about the lens of personal experience and life situations that also add to this. Okay, got it.

I’m going to switch gears for a minute because I think it’s really important to recognize that this is a personal journey, yet every single person within an organization that comes together in an office every day, or comes together remotely to work as a team… whatever a company’s setup is and however those teams are structured… we’re all bringing this stuff with us. It’s up to us as the person with the ultimate responsibility that’s the team lead, that’s building and working toward these relationships, to understand this is going on and that if we see a reaction we’re not expecting, it could be a lot more, and most likely is.

Melanie: Yes. Sometimes people can overreact. If there is a situation in the office, overreact to a criticism or feedback because they bring in all this history of maybe having a critical parent or some stuff going on at home or they’re having trouble paying the bills. The body is wired and hyped up, so it grabs on to things that it generates this automatic response. Stress is also contagious. If the people around you are stressed you pick it up at a non-verbal level and it makes you more stressed. When you are around anxious people, you get anxious too. In an office, that can really exacerbate the whole thing.

Jessica: I think since the early 80’s, people have recognized that we can’t leave our emotions, or baggage if you will at the door. We can’t leave home at home. It’s always a part of us. That’s really when this research started, would you agree, where we started to look at this concept of mindfulness and stress in a different way?

Melanie: As far as business goes, that’s when business became interested in the mindfulness.

Jessica: Thank you. Okay. I’m going to us family as an example. It’s always easier to use family. Parents that fight. Or couples that fight, but they never fight in front of their kids, or the kids they’re responsible for, or the neighbor kids or whomever. Those kids understand there is some undercurrent going on, even though they’ve never seen, heard, felt, or experienced any of that actual argumentativeness.

Just like businesses, we can’t leave our emotions at the door. We can’t really hide from our employees that way either. If something is stressing us out as an owner, our teams are going to pick up on that and it’s going to exacerbate the situation, and we’re going to get acting out just like kids act out when they don’t understand or have the language to communicate.

Do you have tips and ideas that if we’re seeing things that could be classified as, my people are trying to cope with something, but I don’t understand why. I get that I have stress and I have to really be aware of how it’s impacting my team. What would you suggest we start at?

Melanie: It’s a really good point. The stress can kind of leak out, through nonverbals. Some people believe that a big piece of communication is nonverbal. Maybe more even than the verbal. I think we’re wired to see whether another person’s a threat or not, so you will see people’s facial expression, tone of voice, posture, and so on. You’re right, you can’t just shove it under the carpet. They say in families, you’re as sick as your secrets. With an organization, that could be the case too if there’s all this stuff happening behind scenes. But at the same time, you want to give your employees an encouraging positive message. You don’t want to tell them ‘Oh everything’s falling apart and I’m just so worried’. Maybe it’s more in terms of reframing it like, ‘this is a challenge, we’re facing now.’. Tell what’s happening, this is the challenge, but somehow you’ve also got to have a message that we’ve got this. Trust me. We’re going to work together and we’re going to get through it and I have a plan. I have the creativity, or whatever it is, to get you through with problem solving skills. They’ve got to trust you, otherwise they feel even worse and floundering. It’s getting them to trust that you can get through it all. That you are working on a way to get through it. That you see what’s happening, you understand how they feel, but that it’s okay also.

Jessica: We’re talking about talking about it. We might not be able to share details. For example, ‘I’m not exactly sure how I’m going to pay you on Friday’.

They laugh

Melanie: Yeah, don’t say that.

Jessica: That’s actually a problem that occurs in so many businesses. How do I make payroll? How do I get this stuff done? How do I deliver this so that we can collect on the money that we’re due, or receive money from clients? It’s a big deal in our personal lives, but it’s also a pretty big deal for the ultimate people responsible in organizations.

I love this concept of reframing. Not everybody needs to be the Atlas.

Melanie: Just like you don’t tell your kids everything.

Jessica: I love that we’re mixing this together because there’s a lot of dynamics that are similar for this structure. They understand they’re part of a structure and if that structure starts to wiggle in the wind if you will, there’s going to be some fear. What you’re saying is we’ve got to acknowledge it and talk about it.

Reframing is a great start because we can do that for ourselves too, as part of problem solving, to just recognize how big this problem is.

Melanie: It’s changing the way you see the problem. You can take action to solve the problem, but some problems aren’t immediately solvable. In addition on stage, you can try to change how you see the problems, that can help you get through it in a more healthy way.

Jessica: I love problem solving. It happens to be the cornerstone of everything that I do with every business owner, and business leadership team that I work with, is, how do you problem-solve and what are the steps, and where are we strong and weak? I want to know from you, because it’s always fun to hear… how do you approach solving problems?

Melanie: I approach solving problems… I guess to see yourself as a problem solver and to redefine the stress as a problem to be solved. That problem may not have an immediate solution, in which case the way to solve it is to endure it. Find a way to get through it. Part of it is sort of thinking… is this the kind of problem that I can actually do something about, or is this the kind of problem that I just need to change my attitude to remain grounded. If you’re unemployed for example, you kind of need to do both. You should apply for jobs, but you also need to manage the stress so you’re not ruminating about it all day. You need to have some confidence in yourself that you are doing what you need to be doing and you could let go after that. If it’s a problem to be solved, I think it’s trying to define the problem. What’s the problem that you’re actually facing. Putting it in to words. Boiling it down to specifics. What’s likely to happen and then generating solutions and evaluating what might happen. If I do this, what’s likely to happen, if I do that, what’s likely to happen? You can generate solutions without judging them to begin with, because that inhibits you. Then going through the scenarios and envisioning it and coming up with some options and maybe getting more information.

Jessica: I love that you brought up not judging them, not judging the potential solutions. That in itself is also a rewiring of how we’re looking at things. Not necessarily to be accepting or to say that everything has a place, because not everything has a place in every situation.

Melanie: Right, right.

Jessica: So there is an element of… it’s either in or it’s out, and so there’s already some sort of a judgment, but actually going, ‘Yeah, this isn’t really a good idea’, or ‘I’m not so sure about you because you don’t have the track record we need’. What you heard in my voice, I actually hear in my brain when I’m talking to myself and evaluating solutions, and I’m like ‘Oh, I’m being a little judgmental here’. Do you hear that? Do you hear that little voice go on in your mind too?

Melanie: It’s a voice of self-doubt. Sometimes it just creeps in. Especially because our brains are wired to the negative. It’s important in certain stages to shut it out. Especially the stage where you’re trying to be creative, and you’re trying to come up with good ideas. You don’t want to shut yourself down before you even started. That you can evaluate it at the next stage.

Jessica: Is the rewiring of doubt, when to apply, is this solution going to work for the situation or not? Is it similar to understanding do I need to be anxious about this right now or not? Is the wiring of that similar or are we talking about different parts of our brain?

Melanie: I think we’re talking about just avoiding. Maybe an attentional thing, that anxiety makes us pay attention to the threatening aspect of a situation. When you’re anxious, you’ll focus on the negative, you’ll focus on the threat and avoiding the threat from happening. It can narrow your thinking. When you’re in a positive mood you tend to have a broader way of thinking about things and come up with new ideas. Be more open.

Jessica: Does distress come from being more closed-minded when we feel threatened?

Melanie: I think it’s a reaction to stress that you feel anxious, anxiety comes up and you sort of get in this strict focused mode avoiding threat, and then that makes you more close-minded. For some people, it’s a defense. It’s just an automatic thing they do. Maybe they learned it in their families or something. Some people get kind of rigid under stress. It’s a way of coping, kind of maybe not having to manage too much emotion. They’re shutting out some of the emotion by doing that. Other people get very emotional and they can’t think straight. You kind of get both extremes and the best place is in the middle ground where you have both thoughts and feelings coming at a moderate level.

Jessica: Now I’m imagining the most logical person I know. Then I’m imagining that person feeling some sort of a threat. Like they’re reacting to the snake before they see the snake, and their emotions get in the way. They’re usually so logical that everybody goes along with their craziness that comes out in those moments.

Melanie: It’s very logical but doesn’t make any sense.

Jessica: (I am looking around) I’m like, where did that logical person go? And they are saying “I am logical and thoughtful”. I say “No, not really, not right now”.

Melanie: The situation actually predicts behavior better than personality. Personality is important too. We focus so much on personality but we forget about the situation. A very logical person in one situation can be kind of a crazy monster in another situation.

Jessica: I can’t exclude myself from crazy monster… because I do have a crazy monster side.

They laugh

Melanie: I think we all do.

Jessica: I was thinking, I better put myself in that category because I am not exempt.

Melanie: They’re not unrelated… so if you’re shutting down your emotions all the time, eventually it’s going to come out in a very intense way because it’s being shoved down and not dealt with and it’s built up over such a long period. So sometimes it’s not unrelated that you shut it down and then it kind of escapes.

Jessica: We’re talking about rewiring our brain. Everybody that is listening, I want you to just take a moment and be reminded, this is The Voice of Bold Business Radio and we’re talking about change that makes us nervous. Part of that is inherent wiring. What Melanie is telling us today is that we have this chance to actively work and rewire our brain to be less nervous, to be less stressed, and to remove anxiety that we’re inherently wired to be aware of the threats for our survival of the human species.

Jessica: Melanie, I understand that you have a book, and I haven’t had a chance to look at it a lot, but your book talks about this concept. Give us the big idea of your book, including the title. I’ll make sure we link to it in the program notes as well as where to buy it.

Melanie: My book is called ‘The Stress-Proof Brain’. It came out in February. It’s basically a formula and tools for managing your stress and rewiring your brain to be more resilient. Not only managing, but mastering your stress. I believe that there’s a two-fold thing going on. One is that you’ve got to calm the amygdala. You’ve got to calm that fight-or-flight automatic reactive center. Part of how you can do that is through mindfulness. Mindfulness gives you some distance, sort of letting the emotions in and soothing them and things like that. Then the other part is moving forward with your prefrontal cortex, so using the thinking part of your brain to reframe the situation and try to see it as an opportunity for growth, try to connect with your own strengths and positive affect, and focus yourself on staying healthy and being the creative problem solver.

Jessica: One thing I want to just bring ack up that you said early on was that our childhoods, our relationships, the actions and our choices that we’ve made in the outcomes from those, affect how we perceive and maybe even make stress appear or not appear. You were talking about calming the fight-or-flight through mindfulness. Will you share with us one of the tools, or part of one of the tools that you talk about, so that we can start calming our amygdala?

Melanie: This is a very basic idea… the STOP Practice. If you think of the word Stop. When you’re noticing that automatic kind of triggering in your body, part of it is you have to tune in so you notice when you’re triggered. If you left your healthy adult behind. Just stop everything you’re doing, take a breath… because the breath gives your prefrontal cortex time to get on board, and breathing also kind of gets your parasympathetic nervous system going to put the brakes physiologically on fight-or-flight. Slow breathing actually slows your heart rate. Drops that panicky response. So, Stop, Take a breath, then the third one is Observe, which is the mindful part. Just notice… what am I doing? How am I acting? How are people reacting to me? What’s going on here? Is this helpful? What’s the most important thing for me to be focusing on here? What’s my goal? That’s really helpful because it kind of re-orients you. Then Proceed in a kind of more mindful calm grounded way once you’ve done all of those things.





Take a Breath



Jessica: On a previous Voice of Bold Business program, we actually outlined stop, drop and roll. It was dealing with business crisis. You’re talking about your STOP and it made me think of that because it’s like ‘Hey dude, pause, take a breath, bow out, get out of the way.’

Melanie: Get out before you do more damage.

Jessica: Exactly. Then to drop, meaning ‘Ok, now I understand something is happening, I’ve got to figure out what it is’. Then roll, like what you’re talking about proceed. What am I going to do or do I need to do anything? We take on a lot of responsibility to do stuff and we kind of stick our nose in places we don’t really need to be sticking our noses, don’t we?

Melanie: Oh, I love that, yeah. It’s the fight-or-flight response. It’s like you’re wired to do something, to be fighting or fleeing. Sometimes though it can be the worst thing. If you drive other people away, you alienate people if you fight. Or you avoid and you miss opportunities and you let problems accumulate. Sometimes neither of those options are good and the best is just to kind of be with the situation and watch it unfolding. Responding to it more thoughtfully as things unfold and change.

Jessica: That’s pretty interesting, so proceed… when you get through stop and you get to the proceed step… it might be, keep our mouth closed.

Melanie: Sure. Absolutely.

Jessica: We hear this about a masculine/feminine thing… if you’re going to talk to a man about anything, or someone that has a strong masculine energy regardless of gender, they’re going to want to solve your problem. They’re going to make a problem and solve it to check it off a list. I actually don’t think that that is necessarily just a masculine energy thing. I actually think… you mentioned it… you said we’re wired that way. We’re wired to do. We’re wired to take action and we end up getting in our own way. Think of every mother and mother-in-law that mettles a little too much in their kids business.

They laugh

Melanie: Perfect.

Jessica: Are we that kind of boss? I think we need to take a look at that.

On the opposite side of that, you said avoidance. ‘I’m going to just pretend I don’t see anything at all’. When I don’t see anything at all, that avoidance is also part of fight-or-flight isn’t it?

Melanie: Yes, that’s flight. Sometimes it can also be some sort of freeze response. It can be freeze where you’re just overwhelmed and you sort of can’t do anything.

Get away from it, don’t deal with it… that can be very destructive. You don’t get your work done, you procrastinate, you have addiction. Addiction can be a way of running away also. ‘I’ll have a drink so I don’t feel the pain’.

Jessica: Ohhhhh. This is my observation.  Because I observe it doesn’t make it completely right, and you with your background may have some more insight on this. What you just said made me think of the fact that sometimes we think we’re doing something to dull the pain or to take a break or relax… we’re dulling pain, we’re avoiding… and when does that flip? When does that switch?

I could even use the dentist. When I go to the dentist I take a nap when they’re cleaning my teeth, because it’s one of the only places I hold still during. I need to go to the dentist every single week because I get to take a nap.

They laugh

Melanie: Sad state of affairs, huh?

Jessica: It is! I’m using that as an example because the same could be true for that drink at five o’clock, thinking at three o’clock, ‘man this has been a tough day, I can’t wait until five o’clock’. Or some other things where we’re like, okay we’re turning something that was originally supposed to be enjoyable or self-serving in a positive way. Self-care and self-love and it actually becomes a crutch. Can you tell us more about that and where that flip happens?

Melanie: You’re right, because you know having one drink can sometimes be a positive thing. To relax with your friends. We all need to relax. We’re not wired to be going, going, going all the time. Even though we do. The relaxation is actually very healthy for our nervous systems. I’m getting a bit psychological here. What I say to my clients… ”Which part of yourself is this decision coming from?” Is it coming from your healthy adult? In other words, the part of you that’s wise and compassionate and sort of guiding you to do the healthy thing? Or is it coming from an angry child part or is it coming from what I call a detached protector? Is it coming from a part that just wants you numb and doesn’t want to feel?

Mindfulness is big here, so pay attention. How much are you really enjoying this drink? Are you tasting it? Slow down and do that. Maybe you’re doing it over the first drink, but maybe by the time you get to the third drink you’re not and you’re just rocking it back mindlessly. It’s trying to find that break. At which point does it stop being a choice? At which point do you stop being a healthy adult? It takes observing yourself to figure that out I think.

Jessica: If you go on a walk and hike to be in nature, but you’re listening to only podcasts or music and you’re totally tuned in and you’re thinking about what problems you’ve got to deal with or what’s on your list when you get home, you’re really not there and it’s really not self-love anymore, or relaxing.

Melanie: Or, if you’re going to nature but you’re actually repairing the vacuum cleaner… or you’re not giving feedback to the person you need to give feedback to… can also be harmful. So even if you’re enjoying it… I guess it’s a matter of balance, and then it’s also a matter of which part of yourself is this coming from. Is this really coming from the part of yourself that’s looking after you?

Jessica: Exactly! I actually had a little note here to talk about the change in the unknown type of stress versus pressure stress. Do you consider them to have the same root or are they truly different?

Melanie: The initial biology of fight-or-flight is the same, but I think that it depends when your prefrontal cortex gets involved, the way you interpret it. I do think it’s different. I think the uncontrollable stress is worse… the unpredictable… the thing you can’t do anything about, is worse. With the pressure stress there can also be a positive challenging part like, ‘I’m going to get this done!’ Even if it’s hard, you see a rainbow at the end. You can imagine the positive outcome and it gives you joy and it’s meaningful. Even though you’re ready with this pressure there’s also that piece, which is the positive challenge with the opportunity for growth. Whereas with the uncontrollable stress and the uncertainty, it’s like you don’t know what response to do. You feel a little bit more stuck. That’s why it’s in a way worse for you.

Jessica:  I like that you pair pressure and stress with joy. Talk about a way to package it all together. If joy is missing… if that fulfillment is missing, there is no drive, so what’s happening instead? Would that be another way to rephrase what you just said?

Melanie: It doesn’t have to be joy, it can be pressure that you have just done automatic pilot.

Jessica: Yeah, and that wouldn’t be any good.

Melanie: You’re just trying to avoid the line all the time, and that’s bad for you too in a different way. At least you have the potential maybe to connect with what part of this is meaningful. But you know it may not be. Say you are having pressure because you have a boss with unreasonable demands. That’s not so joyful. Then you may be able to take a piece of it and say, ‘Ok, well regardless of the boss, I can do this piece of the work for me and now I’m going to feel the joy in that’. So you know you have a little more opportunity to work with it, but there’s also a piece you can’t control which is the unreasonable boss. That’s harder to deal with. You accept that or you’re going to move somewhere else.

Jessica: We could employ STOP. We could find out, is the lion breathing down our neck or are we hearing it from pretty far away? And then be able to understand what’s going on to… you call it mindfulness. Mindfulness, openness about seeing a larger picture. We’ve increased what we’re able to see by doing that. We need a support network. You were talking about relaxing with friends. When we think of networking today, (sighs) it seems almost like a job. Did you hear me sigh? I hate networking.

Melanie: It’s a burden.

Jessica: I’ll be honest. I hate it. I love people. I like hearing their stories. I like really truly connecting. But this concept of networking has so much pressure I want to avoid it.

Melanie: I agree.

Jessica: It could be of course for work, and who do we need to know and how do we cultivate those relationships. There’s also the cultivation of relationships.

Melanie: Mindfulness can help you so much with relationships. Mindfulness is not only breathing, or trying to find a broader perspective, but it’s bringing a kind of an open compassionate human energy to the situation. Where you’re not only going at it like from what can I get out of this, but you’re going at it from where this is this moment… what’s happening in this moment. Be in that moment. Enjoy it. In that way it’s much better for relationships because you can just be with the person in the moment. In addition to having your goal, which it’s not only about the goal. So you can enjoy interacting with the person, you can be interested in finding out more about what’s going on with them. I think it’s really helpful to balance the mindfulness with that other mindset, with the goal oriented mindset. You kind of need a little bit of both. Mindfulness just makes it a much more meaningful experience.

Jessica: Everything we’ve talked about today, it takes a lot of courage. It takes courage to be willing to be open. It takes courage to be willing to be aware. It even takes courage to decide, I’m going to step away from this busy list, this busy ness and actually relax and have a true connection, whatever that might be. To nature, to people, to a hobby, to a book… it doesn’t matter… but just being in that moment in some way. I want to acknowledge that, because we’re talking about fight or flight. We’re talking about do we hear the lion or are we experiencing the lion’s hot breath on our neck? We’ve got to be courageous all the time, and alert, in ways that are definitely different than early humans. Yet, because we’re wired that way, we now have to engage that with a totally different perspective.

Melanie: Meditation helps us a lot. It’s finding the center and epicot, the sort of peaceful center within yourself. The analogy is that you can think of a lake in a forest and on the surface of the water it’s all stirred up and muddy and twigs and leaves. But if you go deeper into the water there is this quiet cool that’s underneath. Mindfulness is through your breathing and meditation and this general adopting this attitude of being present. You’ll have to find that quiet place inside you. When you have that, there can be all this chaos going on around you and you can start getting triggered, but that’s there too and that can also be your internal guide. What’s most important here, or okay, you need a break now. Even if you have to give up something to do it. But it’s coming from that place, and a lot people lose touch, or don’t know about their place. But that can be a very important tool in business and life I think.

Jessica: Okay, seriously, I’m not sure which part was the most fun. In fact, I actually really like the tool that Dr. Melanie Greenberg shared with us. STOP. Go back and listen if you don’t remember what that is because it is worth it. It is easy, straightforward, and the more you practice it, the more second nature it will become. Just like any habit that we have. You will find all of our program notes at . You can also search ‘Change Makes Us Nervous’. I want you to rate this program. I want you to subscribe to The Voice of Bold Business so that you can hear the latest programs that we are airing every Tuesday and Friday. Not only on iTunes and iHeartRadio, also YouTube and several other listening platforms. Visit The Voice of Bold Business Radio and subscribe today.

The only way we develop what it means to be a leader today, that we understand and we’re sharing stories and recognizing that we’re not on this journey alone is by having a conversation. What does it mean to be a leader today, and how change makes us nervous fits in. Now that you’ve listened to Dr. Melanie Greenberg and myself have this conversation, I want to know, what do you do when there is something, some sort of change that makes you nervous?

Announcer – Subscribe at and get more information, program notes, and past episodes. Bold leaders approach each situation and focus on action to achieve a higher level of leadership. Jessica Dewell, your business advocate is the host of The Voice of Bold Business Radio. Thank you for joining us.